Tuesday, August 23, 2022

Questions Aug 25

Wendell Berry, The World-Ending Fire (WB) -37 (Intro, A Native Hill). Respond to any of these you'd care to, in the comments space below... or to questions posed by your classmates or yourself. Claim a base on the scorecard for each separate comment. 

1. What do you think of WB's remark to Gary Snyder? viii

2. Are you a Boomer or a Sticker? What do you think of WB's formula? x

3. Do you agree that the best way to conceive the world (or nature, or the universe) as a whole is by embracing a particular place? 5

4. Is any particular world (eg, WB's literary world) more important to you than the world? 7

5. Is human history "the progress of doom"? 9

6. When will we "arrive" in America? 13

7. Are paths better than roads? 14-17

8. COMMENT? "I have been taught what was here to be lost by the loss of it." 24

9. Do you have answers to WB's questions? 26-7

10. Do you ever share WB's feeling, when walking in the woods? 31

11 comments:

  1. In regards to question 6, I think the discussion about paths vs roads is an important concept for sustainable development generally. Rather that trying to pave our own vision of the world on top of nature in a kind of Ozymandian idea of ourselves as separate from and above nature, we'd be better off recognizing our societies and economies for what they are, niches within the natural world only different from those occupied by bees or trees by the complexity of the interactions within them. With this in mind we can create a society that meets its own needs and maintains those needs and even economic growth but with protections in place to prevent the disruption of the biogeochemical cycles all life depends on to survive. We can develop a world where each local community can adapt itself best to the environment it finds itself in rather than the creation of a cookie cutter model of suburban or even rural development that takes no account of local conditions aside from how they can be overcome.

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    1. I think that may be the best standard for a sustainable practice, a way of living that one thousand years from now would be as easily practiced as it is today. For instance farming practices that seek to avoid any soil erosion or solar energy that doesn't deplete some finite non renewable resource

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  2. I find myself greatly conflicted with a lot of the points raised in this chapter. However, I find myself agreeing with Berry's commentary on the lack of respect for one's non-native land. It is common knowledge that the European colonizers destroyed both Native American tribes and the land that they had worked so hard to protect. While many Native Americans viewed the land as a living being that they could peacefully live beside, European colonizers who had not been exposed to so much "free land" saw nature as something to conquer. I am not sure if we will ever feel like true natives of the land; despite our (sometimes over-enthusiastic) strong sense of nationalism, much of our population refuses to make any sort of effort at maintaining the natural beauty of the world around us. Although we do have protected national parks, forests, and beaches, most of our land is seen as little more than free real-estate that has no purpose other than to produce capital. I think that, even if we decided as Americans to begin to value the world around us, so much of our natural land has already been lost to rapid infrastructure building and consumerism.

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    1. I think you're definitely right that viewing land as commodity is one of our fundamental flaws when it comes to modern attitudes towards the environment more generally. I think if we view land as a vital aspect of the ecosystem we inhabit with its own rights and view ourselves more as stewards than owners of it we can develop a way of living that uses the land for our own purposes sustainably without destroying it or the ability of future generations to use it in the same way.

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  3. I am not so sure that I agree with such a radical form of anti-infrastructure as Berry does. Although I agree that nature lost to human interference is a great loss that we can never recover from, I do not believe that we should entirely get rid of things such as roads, commercial buildings, etc. I strongly believe that we have been gifted this planet, and that the suppression of human technological advancement goes against our very nature as intellectual beings. I think that there should be a conscious effort to disrupt as little of the landscape as possible while building new infrastructure, and that we should attempt to cancel out any negative harm we do to the environment through whatever means necessary. However, I think that Berry's idea of stopping the building of highways and roads to be a bit of a radical idea that could never effectively be put into place.

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    1. I agree with you and your sentiment Megan! I think Berry's idea of stopping the building of roads and highways is just too illogical. I think taking what he stated in a more allegoric way to compare how humans have treated this world we have been gifted is a much more logical way of thinking. I also like to think that Berry is telling us to slow down and take in what is around us. When using a road you are emphasizing speed and efficiency, but if someone is on a natural path they are truly IN the environment they are taking the path through. So, I think Berry is giving us a reminder to slow down in our lives and walk the path of our environment, whatever that environment is.

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  4. Berry's understanding of the differences between roads and paths has been illuminating to me. Previously, I had not considered how much more deeply connected with nature a path can be compared to a road. As Berry mentions, paths typically go around trees and other obstacles that are mostly left alone. This gives those who use the path a much closer connection to the environment they are passing through. On the other hand, roads do not follow natural obstacles or contours. Rather, they make active efforts to produce a trail requiring the minimal amount of effort necessary to get from an origin to a destination. Such a design allows a person to rapidly pass through an environment with little opportunity for any sort of strong appreciation to occur as does with paths. In my opinion, I agree with Berry that paths are much more in tune with nature and should be utilized more often. However, I also do not dislike roads as strongly as Berry does although I understand why he has his beliefs.

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  5. I really enjoyed Berry's description of "boomers" and "stickers" and its kind of correlation to roads vs paths. Boomers are consumed by constant innovation and progress and "the grass is greener on the other side," this is very similar to his description of roads and how its the most convenient route, avoiding nature and getting you where you need to go. The stickers, those that find a place, care for it, and make it home are comparable to his description of paths. Path are intentional, winding through nature and working with its twists and turns, never taking up more space that necessary and enjoying the journey. I think you can see examples of these in real time as well, with people constantly wanting advancements and new versions of this and that versus someone like my Nana with a very "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.

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  6. I also found interesting the relationship between the quotes "I have been taught what was here to be lost by the loss of it" and "progress of doom" because they kind of piggyback off of each other. There's the local observation of "the generations before me didn't anticipate the future generations necessities" resulting in overuse and poor maintenance of the land. Then on the city, state, world-scale, the "progress of doom" specifically referring to when people discover a new method of getting work done that could save manpower or money, they will immediately do that despite any bad effects it could have on the natural world around them. Both of which can be seen clearly on local and international scales throughout the entirety of history, especially post-industrial revolution.

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  7. Answering Question 5: I think having a particular place is the best way to conceive nature, the world, the universe, etc. around you. I think this idea follows the sentiment that you need to love yourself and know yourself before you can truly love an know others. People need a place they call home, and this home gives them a reference of how they can view other places and things that are not their home. Furthermore, I agree that if a person learns to take care of and truly love/appreciate their home, then they will learn to love and appreciate the rest of the world and want to take care of it.

    However, I do not believe that having a particular place is the only way one can conceive the world. People can travel, or rotate homes, or go explore every depth of the world. I fully accept these can make someone more aware of nature and their surroundings, but I think people need a place they can come back to and call theirs and theirs alone.

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  8. Berry's quote "I have been taught what was here to be lost by the loss of it" (24) is very deep and interesting to me. Berry talks a lot about how he wishes he could see what the United States was in its pristine untouched form, and this quote directly relates to that. Berry can see what has been lost in nature through the construction of buildings, roads, and the progression of human civilization. This is very much a depressing but insightful quote because it tells us to take in what we see and what we have so we do not have to learn of its loss by losing it and not having appreciate what it was beforehand.

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